Ep9: Woodworking for Gamers with Freckled Lion Workshop

Join Josh on The Business of Gaming podcast as he visits with Dave from Freckled Lion Workshop in Oregon. This episode discusses the process of starting a woodworking business in the tabletop gaming industry, finding the right niche for your business and what challenges you can expect with your own gaming adjacent business.

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Hey, y'all. Welcome to the Business of Gaming Podcast. I'm Josh with Game Haven Guild. And today we're at PAX West with Dave from Freckled Wine Workshop. Dave, what got you into starting this fantasy woodworking business? Hey, so actually, honestly, it was a pandemic business. I used to work for Airbnb at the time. And in 2020, of course, everything shut down, including vacations. And so they ended up laying off the entire Portland office at the time. And so just trying to figure out what to do at that point where my wife was a preschool teacher at the time. So she was off for a few weeks, but then they actually put her back to work. And so I just had a lot of free time and a pretty decent severance. They took care of us pretty well. So we had saw something about a woodworking machine called a Glowforge. Seemed like a fun toy. It was kind of expensive, but I had the severance. And we're like, you know, maybe we can turn this into a business, make some cool little signs, you know, whatever. We didn't really know exactly, but we decided to take the risk and go for it. So we ordered it and And just started kind of playing around with it and learning the ins and outs. And then we started making, you know, a few different little trinkets. And then probably our first big item that really took off was our D&D dice coasters. My son is a huge D&D player. I've dabbled. I never get time to play, but I've dabbled. And, you know, coasters are always kind of a cool thing to have, especially when you're kind of, you know, getting into that grown-up phase and you kind of want to take care of your more expensive furniture and we're like you know this would be a good thing not only hold the drink and save your table but then also to hold your dice and so we know we prototyped a bunch and then we finally came up with the idea and kind of took off with that and that was really kind of it other than making kind of the generic stuff you see a lot of wood people make so all the signs like welcome home and you know this house is filled with love and none of those sold because everyone makes them and one thing that my wife and I are really passionate about is a lot of nerdy type stuff. So she is a huge reader, loves fantasy novels. I am a big video gamer and I love science fiction. So we started making more coasters because coasters were popular based on some fantasy maps and really loved doing those. They were really fun. We did those. We also used to make some ornaments that sold really during Christmas really well. And then we We did our first con a few years ago, Fan Expo in Portland. And, you know, just brought a ton of stuff because we had never done anything like this before. So we just made so much product. Brought a bunch of coasters and stuff like that. And everybody loved the coaster, but they're like, you know, we would just like the map as a centerpiece. So we made a bunch that night, brought them, sold them completely out. And we're like, all right, that's the business. So we started thinking about all the stuff that we loved. And so Lord of the Rings was the very first one. Like I said, my wife's a reader, so So a lot of the reading, the fantasy books you really liked, we started making those. Being the gamer, first one I thought of was Link to the Past. I remember watching that map so many times on Super Nintendo. And then we just kind of started taking off with that. We expanded our D&D line using my son as kind of a test subject because he knew, I mean, this kid can recite stuff without even looking at books anymore. And so we started building a lot of stuff off of that. And that's when we're like, okay, this is our niche. We love making the dnd stuff we love and we make the maps and we kind of expanded on those but it's all stuff that we're into so we don't we don't try to focus on the you know all the different things like there's a lot of anime out there that we i appreciate i just don't know much about so we don't make that stuff because we want to be stuff that we're knowledgeable about and stuff that we are passionate about so we do make a little bit of studio ghibli because it's studio ghibli i mean who doesn't mind and i've gotten them into it but um that's our biggest thing it's what we're passionate about and And so that's where a lot of this stuff has kind of come from. And the D&D stuff is just stuff we love anyways. Like I said, I don't get to play too much, but we're hoping to get more to that soon. Did you have much experience with working before that? Nope. No, I come from a retail background. I've done retail or customer service retail for a very long time now. My wife done a little bit of that, but she was a teacher. And so we did not have any experience at all. And And that was one thing that we do credit when we got that Glowforge because it was very, I call it the Apple product of woodworking. It's very, hold your hand, take these steps. It's very simple. And it's a great starting product. But once you get used to it and you're actually trying to use it for production, that's where you realize there's limitations. So we had it for about a year. And then we got into the big Chinese lasers that are like the size of your smart car. And those ones can just handle so much more. But it was completely just learning the product, learning how to handle the laser, learning, you know, we had to learn how to use like illustrator and, uh, um, all those, my wife does most of the design stuff. I'm kind of the production monkey. So, but yeah, it was just, it was a slow going process that first year. I mean, it was just a lot of messing up and learning new tricks and tips and stuff like that. And kind of going from there. What are some products that you tried that you thought would do well, but really didn't? Yeah. Well, the, you know, the, the You know, we used to make like ones that were like specific to state. So it said like home sweet home and it'd be like a little state outline. And, you know, they, we sold a couple, but just other than that, I mean, there's just so many products out there. If you go to Etsy and look that stuff up, there's so many out there. And so we were just like, you know, we, we wanted to find something that was. not being made a lot of, especially in wood, uh, you know, cause you can find ice coasters and like slate or acrylic and stuff like that. And they're very pretty. And we've kind of dabbled in acrylic. Now we're kind of getting into that, but for us it's like wood is such a natural, easy medium to work with. Um, it smells great. Yeah. It's, it's very durable. Um, and it's, it's, uh, it's a great product. So, um, yeah, just a lot of the kind of the ones that we didn't think would do very well. And it's funny because, you know, nowadays we make maps and We're like, okay, this is going to be a great map because it's a really popular book. And we put it out there and then no one sells. And we're like, all right, maybe after this next time we'll get rid of it. We'll go to that con and then we'll sell like 20 of them. And so we've tried to, we've kind of, we've had a lot of difficult trying to figure that out, but, um, it was really, but yeah, mainly just the generic stuff was up the stuff that doesn't sell. So now that we've kind of narrowed down what we make, we really kind of focus on that. That seems to be the bread and butter in terms of the actual business and where you sell, how did that start from a thought of, okay, we're going to start this and we're going to do this to make sales versus how did it actually end up? We started on Etsy because that was kind of where everybody started. It's a very big website. It brings in a lot of traffic and we actually still sell on Etsy. That is our number one sales channel still. We would love to, and we do actually have a website. We start We started a website right away, but it was not much of a retail site because no one came to it. It's definitely picked up since then, and we would love to slowly transfer to the point where Etsy is kind of a secondary just because of all of the fees. Then we were mainly online for the first about two and a half years, and then we tried a farmer's market because it's$20 to get in, very inexpensive. They do all right for us. But again, we kind of do nerdy stuff and farmer's markets, not usually toured by a lot of nerdy people. I mean, you get, you get few, but they're, they're the ones who are actually looking for the, you know, laugh, live, love signs and stuff like that. And there was already three of other people do. So we were like, okay. So we did, we did a farmer's markets every once in a while. Uh, we've actually done them even up to this year. Um, but one, I mean, they're, they're kind of slow on sales and two, my wife and I hate the heat. So we don't like me outside. for too long and so then about three years ago two and a half years ago or so we did our first fan expo that was our very first con and it's a smaller con but it was it did well for us and so then we signed up for Rose City there in Portland which like I told you I mean I've been going to ever since they started and that one was exceptional that actually still stands that first year still stands as our number one making on even as of right now after PAX West we did really excellent we loved it great atmosphere so we're like okay let's do cons because that's our people so we've done cons kind of around the state we've done one in San Jose quite a few in Oregon a couple here in Washington including PAX West we're not sure exactly how many more we're going to do kind of out of state because we're trying to focus a little bit more being local but yeah I I think cons now are our secondary biggest stream after Etsy. And Etsy, just because it brings in a lot of people. People come in looking for those homemade goods, and that's what we do. How about advertising strategies? What have you tried that's worked or something that hasn't? So when we first started out, after we kind of figured, okay, we're making some money doing Etsy, we invested a lot in Facebook ads. Facebook Marketplace. We did Etsy ads. That was kind of it because we're a very small market. We can't really afford a lot. And honestly, the Facebook Marketplace didn't do anything for us. So we actually pulled all of our stuff from there. We have a Facebook presence, but we just don't really advertise on Facebook at all other than putting out some social posts. Same with Instagram. We've talked about TikTok, but we've also noticed that TikTok sometimes can take off for quickly and we just because we're a two-person operation we just don't know if we can handle it you know our products most of our products take up to about half an hour 45 minutes to make just for one and if you know if we got an order for like 100 or 200 we wouldn't be able to do that um without shutting down the store um so we do etsy ads every once in a while uh and then after other than that it's just honestly it's just social media putting out stuff about where we're going we're slowly building a social media presence and the cons really help with that you know we always make sure we have our cards and people follow us you know we always talk about we don't want to put out new maps because everybody's always asking for new months so we're always like you know hey we put out new maps we always put something out on social so we get a social media following there and then we just kind of let them know where we're going to be and it's it's cool seeing that now because now we have people who come to cons looking for us which is I mean it's one it's awesome when people want to buy a product that you made but two when they actually will travel to would go on and be like, you know, you were on my list of stuff I wanted to come and see. So that's kind of it. It's basically word of mouth, a little bit of social media, and then a little bit of advertising. What have been the biggest surprises about starting, you know, both a woodworking business, but also a business in the gaming industry? I guess just what sells and what doesn't sell. For us, it's sometimes a hit or miss. We've gotten a lot, like I said, we've gotten a lot better on our niche products and we know what does really well. But then we'll have people who are like, you know, we'll have a day we're at a con when people are suggesting, hey, I'd love to see this map. You know, why don't you make this? And we're like, yeah, that's a great idea. And then we'll put it out and no one buys it. Or sometimes we're, you know, we're not sure on a thing. We're like, yeah, we'll try it. Let's put something together and we'll work really hard on it. Like we actually put together for this con, it's a new D&D players box. My wife worked really hard on it for months coming up with it. And we weren't sure how well it was going to do. because it is our most expensive item. And we're like, I just don't know how this is going to work out. And it ended up, we sold out within the first two days. So now we're like, okay, great. Now we know what to make. So they unfortunately take a while for production because I got to say a lot of stuff, but it's totally worth it. So that, yeah, it's just, it can be here and miss on sometimes. And that I think is what surprises us. It's, you know, we don't have a dial down even after five years. We've got an inkling of what's possible. and what they do, but we're not sure all the time. Okay, so you're a few years into this now. What is something just within the business that surprised you over those years? Are you where you thought you'd be at this point? We are always surprised when we look at numbers. You know, it's humbling to think that so many people are interested in buying our stuff. You know, when we look at Etsy and we look at our five years now that we've been doing it, we look at our revenue and how many products or orders. I think we just celebrated our fifth anniversary here in August, and I remember looking Looking back and we've had over 12,000 orders and it just surprises us that so many people have wanted to do it. just people are I mean we love our products but you know we're also very critical about our stuff too because you know the stuff that we make and so we're just like I don't know if this is going to be popular or it's going to sell and then when people buy it we're just like oh this is wonderful so that's probably been our biggest surprise is just how popular some of our items have been and that we've been able to go for so long you know I said when we first started five years ago I was doing it full time I mean I We didn't have enough orders, so I was doing it really part-time. And then my wife would help out every once in a while. And then probably about three years ago, I got to the point where she was able to go part-time at her job. And then now it's been a little over a year now that we're both now doing it full-time. So that kind of surprised us too, that we were able to start doing that. I mean, it's not always a very smooth time because there's a slower months. February and March, I'm looking at you. So those are kind of lean times. But then the holidays make up for it. Do you find different trends during the holidays versus like at conventions or the buying habits different? Yeah, holidays. I mean, we do a lot of ornaments. So we do sometimes bring those to the cons during the year. But we have learned over the last couple of years that just, you know, there's that we'll sell like maybe three or four ornaments during the summer. But then as it gets into September, now this is actually when Christmas starts for us. So our next thing that we do, which is next We'll probably bring ornaments and they'll start selling. Ornaments are always a good bet. They always do really well for us. Yeah, that's kind of the biggest thing for us for holidays. Where do you see your business going here over the next few years? I would love to see it get more. I think it's basically dialing in. We as a two-person operation can't handle too much more production than what we're doing now. But I think dialing in, like getting production under a better control, getting newer machines that can do things quicker and better, um, to help make it so that we can get more stuff done, uh, figuring out, you know, better profit margins, figuring out, you know, what markets work better for us. I think that's kind of our next big hurdle. Uh, I mean, we're always going to make new products and we have like four or five new maps that we're working on as of right now. Um, and then, like I said, we just put out that box. Um, But I think it's really just kind of dialing in the business at this point. You know, we're pretty happy with the products that we're making. It's just kind of getting everything dialed in better. Well, looking back on your experience now, you've been doing this five years. If someone wanted to get into not necessarily a woodworking business in tabletop gaming, but just into tabletop gaming with a business, what advice would you give them? A lot of research. Spend your time. Don't just go in like I did. But do the research to find out, you know, what the market needs you know if you're really into um you really love dice dice are great everybody loves dice everybody collects dice but there's even you go out here right now there is 40 booths out here that sell dice so making dice is not going to be an easy road uh you know if you could figure out a way to make different kinds of dice that are really pop that might be popular that's a way to go but you know do your research figure out a niche you know being at woodworking or acrylic or whatever medium you're going to work in and then figure out the product that's going to sell. I always suggest making it a product that you're into because you will hate life if it is something that you don't care for or something that bugs the crud out of you. Starting a small business is a wonderful, wonderful thing to do, but it will run your life down. Um, and so, you know, if you're going to be working, uh, 10, 12 hour days, seven days a week, which is what we do, especially during the holidays, it's gotta be something that you enjoy. And so, you know, if it's something that, uh, you know, like, um, if you're making stuff like we do like maps, you know, if it's stuff that you don't mind looking at or a D and D type stuff, you know, that, that helps a lot. And then, um, but yeah, I think the main thing is, is don't just jump in. Do your research. You know, if it's the nerdy product you really like, go to a lot of cons. Talk to other vendors. Most vendors are really cool about talking about their crap. We get people coming in and they're like, you know, I just picked up a laser engraver and I'm kind of wanting to do this and we'll talk and I'll give out my card and be like, email me if you have any questions. I have no problem talking to you and trying to help you out because there's a big enough market out there for everybody. In fact, we have some of our good friends over here at Hexwood Forge Super cool people. They do laser engraving stuff. They do acrylic mainly, but they do some wood stuff too. Super cool people. And we talk all the time. When we got into PAX, because they've done it two years now, I immediately messaged them and like, what should I be planning for? And we talked about all that and try to figure out what to do. But yeah, just go around, talk to the other vendors. If you have questions, ask. Most vendors have no problem talking to you unless they're busy. Then please just leave them alone and let them finish. Don't interrupt the sale. Yes. But, you know, or grab their card and be like, hey, can I email you? I'm thinking about doing such and such. I have questions to bounce off. And most of the vendors are pretty cool about that. Great. Dave, thanks for talking to us today. Yeah, for sure, man. This has been awesome.